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Coming up on Voices in Local Government, a Milton and Helene debrief plus emergency
management lessons going into the 2025 hurricane season with John Antapasis, who is
in the EOC as Emergency Management Director in Tampa. This isn't just about
hurricanes or only relevant to Florida or the Southeast, John covers cooperation
between neighboring local governments, cities, towns, county, state level and how to
best work with FEMA. This is relevant to any type of emergency in any location.
Tampa and Hillsborough County, Florida is also the site for ICMA 2025 annual
conference, October 25 to 29. Registration and maybe just as important those hotels
are open now. Conference .icma .org has more information on schedule, sessions,
speakers and sporting events.
Welcome to Voices in Local Government, an ICMA podcast. My name is Joe Supervielle.
Here with us to discuss Local Government Emergency Management is John Antapasis,
Emergency Management Director, City of Tampa, and a junk professor at Florida
International University. Thanks for joining, John. - Thanks for having me, Joe. - To
brag on John just for a little bit because he's too polite to do it. He has a
degree in neuroscience and also a master's degree in public administration and urban
and regional planning, so obviously emergency management's the expertise and focus
here, but he's got a well rounded background on local government. And one
interesting, beyond the hurricanes and emergencies, John's also managed large scale
events, including the Super Bowl. So I wanted to ask, was that the Super Bowl that
was actually in Tampa when the Tampa Bay Buccaneers won it? - It was, it was Super
Bowl LV. It was Tampa Bay Buccaneers versus Kansas City Chiefs right after COVID -19
or during COVID -19 2021. Big event for us in the city. And then obviously we
brought home the trophy. So it was just overall just an incredible event to be part
of. - On the local government side, icmaid .org /recoveryresources is the webpage for
all things emergency management and the resources that will help, and that's not
exclusively hurricane content. Today, this example is gonna focus on that a little
bit, but obviously there's more, I mean, California with the wildfires,
everything in between, and even the hurricanes weren't just limited to Florida, so
there's a lot going on all across the country and world with this topic. And we'll
get into kind of the logistics and the action items, items, but just kind on a
personal level, how did you get through it personally and professionally?
Well, you know, being in this career now for 15 plus years, you know, and
especially growing up in Florida, we know the hurricane season, June 1st to November
30th, but really the heights that August, September, October. So, you know, with our
families, we got to get them prepared that we know for our positions that we may
get called in at any moments notice, you know, golf storms spin up. So we get
prepared well ahead of time, know our plans and having our families away in a safe
spot, literally down in Miami, well, out of those dangers because we have to get to
work and we really, our families, we wanna make sure they're taken care of and we
just try to pre -plan it as much as possible. And then when it comes, we just get
them out of harm's way so we can get to work. - Yeah, So you could focus on what
you need to do and that's I think equivalent for city county managers and their
senior staff listening to right now It was a tough year multiple hurricanes and
we're gonna get into it But I think there's some good news and reason for optimism
Both for and because of all the dedicated local government professionals that covers
first responders on the ground People like John and the EOC emergency operations
center same thing with city county managers. So the people that make up local local
government did a lot right in 2024 under the most extreme conditions, but today
we're kind of debrief a little bit and lessons learned best practices. So the
inevitable next emergency, everyone listening can hopefully just get themselves in
their town or city just a little bit better best practices will cover also
addressing the whole community approach and see preparedness to meet modern hazards.
It's different these days than it even used to be. Part of that is leveraging
technology to enhance information management and situational, excuse me, awareness. And
then again, the review and continuous improvement from those after -action reports. So,
John, I think everyone listening kind of understands their risks and urgency with
public safety. Trainings are out there, local governments have plans. It's not like
they're starting from scratch, but what else can they do? What can they do
differently? What can they do more of, less of? What are the best practices? Where
do you want to start? At local government level for emergency management and public
safety, it's the most important thing government does at the local level to ensure
our residents are safe, being prepared. And at our city of Tampa, we're a large
municipality, large metro city within a large region in Tampa Bay. But ultimately,
some of our best preparedness that we do is obviously the plan updates, things of
that nature, making sure they're not just a plan that's up on the shelf. We refresh
them every year. So whether that's staffing changes that are occurring in our
organizational chart, things of that nature, we update that every year before the
storm season so that when we use it, it is an up -to -date document. But also the
trainings, the culture of preparedness, we really brought that to Tampa. Our group,
we're 4 ,800 employees in the city of Tampa and we have a program called Know Your
Role. So we do emergency assignments before the season because ultimately, you know,
our division in fire rescue isn't large enough to even carry out everything that's
needed during the storm. So whether that's shelter operations, giving out food and
water after a storm, things of that nature, we got to get organized. So we again
train those folks. We do a hurricane exercise going into the season, but really
going through the whole gamut of preparedness, of plans, training, organizing,
exercising and then being ready is really the best practice. They just continue to
do that each year that you have, you know, your folks ready to being able to, if
they have to go call for action, they're going to be able to perform. Okay and you
say we is it accurate that you actually technically report into the mayor's office
and it just depends on the form of government but whether it's a mayor or city
manager, non -elected staff as you said the number, how does your department and your
role fit in and do you have authority to make those changes?
Does it run through the executive? how do you actually, what's the process to update
the manual itself, but the actual kind of living document? We actually have an
executive policy group, so that would be at the mayor's level, chief of staff, and
our administrators. So sort of the highest level of the organizational chart for the
city. But we actually report to the fire chief, who's the emergency manager in our
code of ordinances. So she has delegated authority through the mayor that then is
pushed out to our division to carry out her functions as needed. - Okay, so the
fire department is the lead. The fire department with the emergency management is
considered the lead and then you all set the direction and then the other
departments, as you said, literally know your role and know what you're supposed to
do when it's time 'cause you're not gonna have a ton of time to actually get it
ready. They have to know ahead of time. Yeah, we work in the fire department, but
we work with all our departments, public works has specific roles and
responsibilities, nor in storms, Tampa Police Department, our code enforcement
department. All these departments have emergency roles. And those are listed in our
plan, what they're responsible for. So but we do work with all departments, even
though we are housed in fire, and historically, we have been which is a really good
fit for us. we do work with all departments. - Yeah, so and it's a back and forth
with those department heads on, not just the number of staff, but making sure the
assignments are appropriate to the skill set or the position in other departments
where it's communications or public information office or whatever else. How does the
back and forth go to actually figure out or make those decisions or assigning roles?
- I would say staffing is probably one of the harder parts of the job, especially
emergency assignments, yep, very complicated. For example, we staff the large shelters
within the city jurisdiction. We have an agreement with Hillsborough County to support
them in that role, but we have to get staffed up for that. There's 150 plus
personnel that are just assigned shelters, and then lessons learned from this past
storms, we need to increase that number. But again, working across departments, we
have to solicit the numbers we need, you know, and working with those departments
and who's the right fit that could really meet what's needed in that role. So you
mentioned the county. How does it work with those smaller towns that are outside the
city limits or possibly even the county limits? Because people here at Tampa, I
think most people can visualize where that is, but those smaller towns up and down
the Gulf Coast to Florida or even inland a little bit who get hit with the
flooding, how should they approach it? If the listeners from one of those smaller
towns that maybe doesn't have the resources or a version of you helping them, are
there shared resources? Are there agreements in our county, in our town? How does
that work when other areas also need maybe more support and more volume than they
can handle? Yeah, sure. In the state of Florida, It's actually in our state statute,
statute 252, that the counties, all 67 of them in Florida, are actually have
emergency management powers. But then further down in that statute, there's
municipality powers as well. But ultimately, there are a lot of jurisdictions that
either have someone doing part -time as the emergency manager, that might be the
public works director, a fire chief, police chief, something of that nature, have in
that person assigned that is going to be one voicing the concerns and unmet needs
they have in that jurisdiction up through their county to get to the state. Because
ultimately, especially these catastrophic incidents like a large major hurricane, no
jurisdiction is going to have every resource they need to get through that moment.
And to know that process and to have that coordination element there already ahead
of time is going to be key. And at least knowing who that point person is
connecting with their county and that resource request process and what's needed is
really gonna be key for them to be in the know ahead of time. So when these days
do happen, they already know the process to request things. - Okay, and then aside
from the technical logistics, that topic of a whole community approach, how is it
different now or in 2024 compared to even just five years ago when we say modern
threats, I mean, the severity of the storms might be more, but aside from that,
what are the differences you've seen just in the last few years? - So, you know,
I'm not a big fan of buzzwords, like whole community approach sometimes, but it's
actually, it's real though. And it's the whole community, especially after COVID,
I've found, especially our community specifically, people wanted to know, how do I I
get involved? Thanks. How do I support the city? And we have a community emergency
response team. It's our volunteer disaster program, which really exploded since 2021
for us. And we host these volunteers. It's actually a set training from FEMA. We
get residents that come in. They learn basic disaster training. They go through a
level two background check with us. And they're on our team so that when we do
need additional help, We do call outs these volunteers, but it even goes beyond
those volunteers because those are kind of like at the tip the ones that really
want to get involved, but Preparedness with our community our folks, you know, no
understanding especially with these last few hurricane seasons How busy it's been
being prepared ahead of time It really alleviates the demand that we're being asked
for and we do a lot of outreach efforts HOA is faith base, things of that nature.
We're doing that throughout April, May, June. We get requests pretty much like two,
three times a week. Just getting folks to make their plans, get their hurricane kits
ahead of time, staying informed with our social media alert tempo or on our
notification system. And then we're all more resilient together here if we're all in
the know. Yeah, the technology helps and internet social media that that will get
the word out and even just port school local news on the TV,
you tell me it seems to me making sure people know isn't necessarily the problem,
but what about staying on message or making sure there's a unified, consistent voice
and then perhaps recommendation on what they should be doing because that can be
tough. Whatever the topic that's tough to manage online, there's going to be
different opinions. There's kind of that, That factor whether it is the news or
otherwise it I hate to say sensationalizing it, but sometimes it can kind of be
That on the front end until it's not until it is that serious. So how Can the
local government kind of mitigate that and make sure the messaging is together and
coherent I Think the big mission with our public information officers is we're making
sure we're getting out the right information at the right time for a residence to
make the right decision and if you know, they come to us as a trusted resource and
we really stick by that mission of really not flooding people with too Much
information that they get lost in it, but really these key items of vacuations You
know ensuring, you know generators aren't going to be running in their garages things
of that nature But you know that there's some action for the resident and keeping
it simple But again, getting that right information to the right folks so they can
make those right decisions and save their lives, protect their property. And I think
our communications office really does an excellent job. They leaned into social media
early, and obviously it's evolved so much now. But we really provide, I believe,
just good back and forth communications, but also it's a two -way piece as well,
'cause we get residents that input back to us that we're able, you know, during
these past storms that we can actually reply right back to whether that's through
those social media channels or even our call center. But we want that back and
forth relationship with our residents and what's going on during these emergencies.
Okay. And what about that? I don't know if feedback is the right word, but when
you hear from residents where, hey, I know you're telling us to evacuate or this or
that, but What about my pet? What about grandma? What about this or that? It's
usually not that easy. And I guess that does circle back to having the plan in
place ahead of time. But not everyone is necessarily going to do that. So how in
your role do you how can you over how can you compensate maybe for the for those
that still need more? It is hard. The hurricane fatigue is real.
You know even for Tampa 1921 was the last major hurricane to hit Tampa Bay so it's
well past me in your lifetime and You know before that even you know if you go
back before 2016 hurricane Matthew. There was a ten -year drought So Tampa's always
thought we've got the lucky streak going and and just you know the highlight last
year hurricane Helene occurred and a lot of people didn't evacuate for that storm
But Hurricane Milton, which is literally, you know, 10 plus days later almost
everyone evacuated So obviously the real world, you know lessons learned of people
they they tend to to learn really quickly But ultimately it's we just continue to
hammer home. You know, it's like yeah Tampa's been lucky for a hundred plus years
but that luck does run out there is still the natural risk that's there as a
coastal community and And again, And again, just seeing the real devastation that
occurred last year, again, I don't think our families in Tampa are gonna forget that
for next one. They don't wanna be there when that surge is coming in. - Right. So
we covered the social media side, but is there anything else leveraging technology
internally? What maybe is different than a few years ago,
perhaps what's going to happen, whether it's the the wind or the floods or the
storm itself or just the internal communication. It has technology allowed you to do
your job better because that's also the buzzword, whether again buzzwords, but whether
it's AI or anything else, we keep hearing how technology is going to help us do
our jobs better. Is that the case? Have you, has it helped you? Oh yeah, in a lot
of different ways. just I guess first to start on the forecasting front, we work
very closely with the National Weather Service, our local office here. They've had
upgrades to their forecasting models where they've really, you know, their predictions
have been much more accurate, especially this past season. The tracking intensities
that they were forecasting days out were spot on. So one, that helps really make
our decisions a lot easier when they're forecasting out, you know, five plus days
out, and it actually comes to fruition and it is more accurate, then we can make
better decisions, whether that's evacuations or other type of activations that we have
to do, where, you know, historically in the past, you know, some forecasts may have
been totally off, and then, you know, no, you know, city manager or mayor wants to
call an evacuation order, and then nothing happens. Right. So, definitely we've
evolved there, but then on the notification side, you know, with our integrated
public alert and warning system, most people have smartphones at this point, we can
blast those wireless alerts out to everyone for those life safety alerts. And we did
do that for the storm. So for the most, I would say, you know, 99 % of folks
we're getting the message of evacuations here in our region. - Is your, are the
alerts that go use the smartphones, are those some type of tiered system? Because
same thing, it's maybe in other areas too, where it's not as big of a risk where
a tornado warning can pop up or hail or these things that are like, okay, I'm glad
I know about them. How do you all tier that are structured so people aren't
ignoring it? So for us on the iPause is the acronym for it.
And it's a Department of Homeland Security Basically interface that we use that tool
similar to amber alerts and things of that nature, but they're geo coded So for
example, if a level a evacuation zone had been ordered then every address point
within that level a Boundary would be hit, but if you were in a level E evacuation
zone, you would not receive that message So it's location based Okay, and then
there's a difference between maybe warnings or a few days out. Here's the projection
versus this is an evacuation order. Yes. It needs to happen at that point. It's,
it's go time. Exactly. And even our weather service, you know, they would, they
actually do it for watches as well for storm surge watch and warning. So that gives
again, those few days of extra, okay, this is time to get your plan in action and
then we're into that warning where it's, you know, take action with, let's go. on
the preparation, these emergencies are going to happen.
Then what, you know, what, what is the best way to debrief, review or judge the
effort and position to do better next time? And it's not necessarily a scoring or
saying it's not a pass /fail, such a difficult situation that everyone is doing the
best they can. But how did you go about two part question? How do you actually
structure the debrief so it's effective and not just box checking. And then the
second part is, what can you give us some details on the debris from this past
season? And again, it's not, it's not to say that anything went wrong or was a
failure, but were there any, I mean, you mentioned one about just staffing the
centers a little bit higher, having that number bumped from 150. So that's one
example, but any other specific examples where, again, I don't like the buzzwords
either, but lessons learned are, okay, this was maybe a C or a B minus, but we
got to get it up to an A for 2025 and beyond. - Oh, definitely.
Homeland Security Exercise and Evaluation Program is HCEAP is the acronym.
So Homeland Security has a process to evaluate any complex incident or large scale
special event. And really the focus is that continuous improvement. No emergency is
gonna go flawless, regardless of wherever you are in the United States, there are
always ways that you can continuously improve how you responded, how you were covered
from it, how could we mitigate the risk from this in the future. And that product
from Homeland Security really helps you methodically walk through to evaluate your
organization. So we actually did that after last year storms, Hurricane Helene and
Milton. And through that process, what we do is one, during the actual incident,
we have a board in our software system called WebEOC, that any employee that's
working the incident can actually update after action items during the actual
incident. Because what we found in the past was if you waited till after the storm,
people may forget. Yeah, and you're so stressed in the memories. Yeah. Real time is
much more effective, it seems. Exactly. So you do the real time then you also send
out a survey to all our employees that work the storm after collect that
information. Then we do a hot wash, which is an after action review meeting. We
have our leads come in, identify strengths, areas for improvement, but any areas of
improvement identify we look at corrective actions are in place as well. And then
that gives us sort of our project management piece of the puzzle. well now what how
do we close those gaps you know we have these corrective actions identified whether
it was inquiry staffing at locations upgrades or updates to information systems that
we use that was also identified coordination between jurisdictions you know we do
we're a large municipality in a large county communication information sharing things
other coordination elements we can always enhance that as well And again, you know,
we identify that in the report. And again, it gives our team sort of, all right,
now we have some more activities to do on the off season to close those gaps as
we get ready for the next season. - Okay, is the fire chief also leading that
effort? I mean, it seems sounds like everyone has their individual roles and might
have, you know, different departments had to speak up at particular topics, but how,
how do those meetings go? And from from your view, what is the best or most
effective role for that non -elected leader like the city county manager? How do they
fit into that puzzle? - Yeah, our office actually facilitates the planning process and
the meeting, so Office of Emergency Management, and then each administrator or
director that's responsible for an area, they're actually responsible for providing any
strengths or areas for improvement they observe and then as that report gets put
together through our shop it goes up through the mayor's office and the chief of
staff to review it add details that they may have at the executive level that they
want to include or remove etc so it goes through kind of the whole flow from kind
of bottom up I would say but our shop kind of facilitates the plan that to
actually get completed. What about the budget so say This happens and that you're
already laughing, but that is the thing in local government. Okay People kind of
know what we need sometimes or what we need more of or what to improve But then
there's the budget is that just kind of pushed off and let the politicians figure
it out or You got to justify we need X Y and Z. It's non -negotiable Here's the
evidence like as you said earlier, maybe tracking in real time This is what And if
we had this, it could have been that. How do you, or do you get into budget
justification? - We do, 'cause there is definitely a financial component. Whether you
need more equipment, we purchase star links and things that the chainsaws, additional
equipment we needed. There has to be a funding source to purchase those type of
things. Grants, we also go after those. So there are potentially some external
revenue sources that we go after, but ultimately, we do need a budget for it,
whether...
nature where you really paint the picture of this is what occurred because again,
these emergency incidents that may be five to 10 % of our career. So it's not like
normal budgeting process, but when you really need one of these things, you really
need it. One of the one of the last bigger questions is I did want to touch on
the FEMA aspect, whether it's before during after all of the above. I think that
generally is well received and positive and literally the support is needed, but I
think sometimes also the local government can get a little frustrated when FEMA is
maybe doing something on a regional level and it's hard to get specific answers or
results, again, back to the smaller towns that aren't necessarily staffed and
resourced and budgeted like Tampa. So what is your experience like with FEMA? And
again, how does that tie back into the non -elected local government officials trying
to just maybe post immediate response. This is maybe more like a month later. I
mean, we're courting this in February. We're multiple months later. I'm assuming it's
not 100 % back to normal, but that was a slow process even getting there. And FEMA
is a big piece of it. So any advice to the local government professionals out there
on how to best interact with FEMA and be effective with them? - One, I would work
into your assumptions of your plans that FEMA or federal agencies may be stretched
in when that emergency occurs. What we found with Haleen and Milton is if you
remember, Haleen went up pretty much the whole Northeast, up through North Carolina.
And they were stretched in. The resources that came to Tampa were very limited. We
set up disaster recovery centers. They were FEMA run, but the staff wasn't there.
So then ultimately, just as a story, I'm out there at one of these as recovery
centers, FEMA comes up to me and says, "Hey, we're going to have to cut off the
line at 11 in the morning." Well, we had 100 people still outside. So, you know,
jointly, you know, working with FEMA, I went out with them, explained what was
occurring, that they had to come back the next day because they literally were
overwhelmed. They didn't have the capacity and really the staffing to send down the
support because it was from Tampa to Tallahassee Georgia, North Carolina. Um,
so they may be stretched in, but you know, to get to your question, you know, you
really want to connect with those agencies. They're going to reach out to you as
well, but either through your county or through your municipality here in Tampa,
again, large Metro City, FEMA did come to us every single time, you know, they were
reaching out and connecting with us as well as Hillsborough County. Um, but have
that relationship, have those numbers, um, and keep, you know, as things are needed,
you know, they may know someone else in that federal agency that may be able to
support what you're doing for the community. Okay. And it might switch on the flag,
again, depending on where people are signed or deployed to, but that goes back to
prep on the front end. If you can establish those relationships, get the contacts,
that's a good starting point. And then even if those are not the people who will
be on site, hopefully they can point you in the right direction. Exactly. Okay,
do you have any kind of final words of wisdom or just whether it's on the
logistics or itself or again back to the personal side on just getting through it
and you tackle two of the bigger ones back to back the stress levels are just
almost incalculable. What's your final takeaway or what would you say even whether
you're a city manager or one of their departments or just someone going into a role
like yours working the way up that ladder. What's your made advice on how to get
through it? Just pushing through and doing the best you can to keep helping the
residents. I think one big thing to keep in focus, kind of what I alluded to
before, this is maybe 5 % to 10 % of our jobs, these emergencies that occur in our
organizations and our local governments, but it pays dividends to get a culture of
preparedness in place with your employees, knowing their roles and assignments during
that 10 % of their job duties. One thing we've done after lessons learned from
Hurricane Irma, everyone's job description now has, you know, emergency duties as
assigned. Because again, you know, as a public servant, you know, one of our main
things is, you know, public safety and support in the community during crisis. And
having that organized, having folks trained, having the equipment in place, and really
having a team, whether that's an office of emergency management or an extra hat for
an individual that's in your organization, really being that spearhead for emergency
management and preparedness is the only way that you're going to tackle it, get
things in place, and then when that bad day does come, you're going to be better
ready to accomplish what you need to do. Yeah. So again, it comes back to
preparedness and you can't prepare for everything and nature or otherwise might have
other plans, but you you still got to do and still have that starting point to
then adjust from there. So more information on what John has covered can be found
at tampa .gov /emergencymanagement, the website on icma .org /recoveryresources.
Again, that's not just for hurricanes, it's going to apply to the wildfires,
tornadoes, even non -nature emergency management events. We're also looking forward to
having a full track on this at ICMA annual conference. October 25 through 29 save
the date registration will likely open this summer in June. And it will be none
other than Tampa, Florida. So I'm looking forward to coming down there and learning
some more lessons in person from people like John who have been through it. So
thanks for sharing your experience or expertise and everything you've done to help
the residents of Tampa and beyond. Thanks, John. Thanks, Joe.
In this episode of Voices in Local Government, Joe Supervielle speaks with John Antapasis, Emergency Management Director, Fire Rescue, City of Tampa. John explains how diligent training and planning prepared the local governments and first responders during the extreme challenges of the 2024 hurricane season.
Key Takeaways for local government's emergency management and response:
- Best practices in governmental preparedness.
- How to address the entire community.
- Ways to leverage technology to enhance information management and situational awareness.
- Cooperation with FEMA.
- Implement actionable review and continuous improvement.
Featured Guest:
John Antapasis, Emergency Management Director, Fire Rescue, City of Tampa
Voices in Local Government Podcast Hosts
Joe Supervielle and Angelica Wedell
Resources
ICMA Annual Conference, October 25-29 in Tampa
